Cassielle Publish time 2013-1-15 22:56:06

Player Feedback Needed! Difficulty, Karma, Balance

Edited by Cassielle at 2013-2-5 13:39

EDIT: FULL RELEASE NOW!
Assume all below stuff to be talking about release now -- and give your opinions on the new features, like the item shop!

--------------------------------------------

Hey guys! The team badly needs some feedback right now on the new balance from 1.7.1 and where the balance needs to go. Consider this like a little questionnaire where the team looks at your answers and figures out how to apply them to the game!

The team needs to know:

1- How are we doing on difficulty? Are bosses way too hard and normal enemies way too easy, or vice-versa? What about level caps -- are they too low, or too high for a given area? What about enemy balance -- too many melee enemies, too many ranged enemies, certain enemies overpowered? We need to hear the specifics -- and we need your opinion. What enemies/areas need to be changed? Why are they not good now? How would you like to see them fixed?

2- What about karma? A lot of players have wildly differing views on the karma system and economy as it stands -- we need to hear WHAT you think and WHY. Is it too easy to get karma? Good -- tell us why and how it can be improved. Is it too hard? Also good -- tell us the same. The devil is in the details when it comes to economics, even game economics -- that little unimportant "but if x" could be the key. Keep in mind this applies as much to "loose karma" in the wild as it does to karma obtained and lost through transmuting, selling, and buying items, skills and pets.

3- And the item generation system? Lots of users have stated the shops seem almost worthless, because they get much better stuff out in the wild. Good -- now what we need to hear is if that's a good or a bad thing. What about the new loot system, with more common blues and purples?  Some users have said it's harder to get the same amount of karma because fewer items drop-- others have disagreed. Some complain about loot level balance -- level 2 items in Bloodfang Fort. Tell us what you like and dislike and let us know how to fix it -- again: what's wrong, why is it bad, how can we fix it.

4- While we're on items -- what about those items? Do certain items outclass others? Does 2-hander Area of Effect make them overpowered, or does their slow attack speed make them worthless at the moment? Should we nerf or rearrange the effects on Medium and Heavy Armor? Or do dueling and light armor need a boost to help those poor little ninjas? What - why - how. The team needs to hear it!

5- And lastly -- but by no means least importantly -- skills. I have heard almost every skill in the game called overpowered at some point in time, and more than a fair share called useless or underpowered. Great -- what skill is it, why is it so bad, and how can it be fixed? Is it more than one? An entire class of skills? A need for certain skills to scale with different stats? Tell the team!

Thank you guys, and remember that player feedback is the entire point of open beta: the team needs to hear you, so speak up!

--Cassy

Cassielle Publish time 2013-1-16 04:39:32

Figure I'll get this party started with the BIG one.

High threat currently makes new characters impossible to make. Why? Because you cannot, I repeat cannot, get anywhere with them.

Used to be kiting and nasty cheap tricks could do the job, but since the rebalancing it is literally nearly impossible for a level 1 to survive -- even with an ally. This is egregious and destroys game balance for players who like having multiple characters -- or occasionally force-resetting their characters.

I'll drop more insights when more people drop their own!

MrGuyDude Publish time 2013-1-16 04:39:53

I didn't play much before the patch (only found out about the game yesterday), I have however noticed a huge difference in difficulty, items and karma gains. I find the difficulty changes good so far, yesterday I was rushing head on into several groups and just standing there holding shift-click and spinning around and casting the occassional skill to keep the kill combo going. That won't work now, which is a good thing. Yesterday it was too easy, now it's perfect imo. Just have to adapt, as with all changes everywhere.

Karma gains.. Don't have much to say about this at the moment. All I know is yesterday I had 3x as much karma as I do now (not counting karma spent on training) so I guess it's a good thing in terms of difficulty. It does, however, lead to lots and lots of grinding in the same areas which I know some people hate while others don't mind or even like it. Me, personally, don't mind it at all since while you're grinding karma, you also find better equipment which will make you more prepared for the levels ahead.

Loot! I currently love it. I was having a hard time finding upgrades yesterday and had to resort to using the shop to upgrade most of my gear. This is both good and bad imo, some people wants to find their own upgrades (me included) and see shops/auction houses as the easy way out (Thanks Diablo 3!). So far I have found more greens than yesterday, not necessarily upgrades but it does keep you going in hopes of the next drop being an upgrade. So again, a good change.

Can't say much about the different items either since I haven't played that much yet. 2-handers felt slow but I did like the AoE. Using one 1-handed weapon seemed silly to me since I can dual wield and while losing speed, you do gain other things such as life steal, cunning/prowess/fortitude boosts that you wouldn't have otherwise had you chosen a 2-hander or one 1-hander. So I guess in the end it's all about personal preference rather than OP-ness (though I guess dual wielding could be considered OP considering the pros vs cons.).

I'll try to update this as I go along but this is all so far. Love the changes! Keep it up :)

Somnia Publish time 2013-1-16 05:18:07

Edited by Somnia at 2013-1-16 06:51

Amano Hunter and Amano Trapper in Bloodfang fort hit for 400+ damage each attack. If stunned, they make a one frame attack immediately after they come out of stun.
For whatever reason, they are twice as strong as the Amano Warden boss they surround. The Amano Warden deals only 200 per attack, but these regular mobs strike for 400.

I'm all for harder monsters in the game, but they are tweaked too high with our lower health. I only have 825 life at level 11.


FreeRangers Publish time 2013-1-16 05:51:41

Edited by FreeRangers at 2013-1-16 05:58

I'll start off by saying that purchasing the new areas costs too much karma, especially when you have to buy upgrades as well. This leads to a lot of grinding the same levels over and over to get enough karma to unlock the next area.

The dificulty is a bit too high, especially at the high threat level missions. As others have mentioned it's almost impossible to start new characters. But even just using one character, the difficulty has increased significantly since the last build. The difficulty is further accentuated by the fact that you have to keep grinding the same levels over and over to get karma.

There doesn't seem to be any advantage to using two handed weapons. You can get better dps and speed using 2 one handed weapons. Plus it seems (so far anyway) that one handed weapons have better stat bonuses.

Rambochicken Publish time 2013-1-16 06:29:20

Right now my only issue the missions and the grind. The missions are fun but i believe 5 missions should be implemented per area instead of 3. I understand the detail gets incredible later on but its still a little bit too much grind and you could also get really creative with the missions like make some race the clock missions etc.. other than that FANTASTIC game guys and I will def play it lots and continue to give my feedback

Somnia Publish time 2013-1-16 07:01:21

I bought Chi Mend II and it heals me for only 9 more HP than the first level. I think this should be looked at, it's a waste of karma as is now.

hiragi Publish time 2013-1-16 10:46:06

Edited by hiragi at 2013-1-16 14:59

yeah ever since the latest open beta patch, the imp hunters which are ranged hit twice if not almost 3 times as hard as they did last patch, medium threat 3-3 range mobs hit for 800! also their hp seems to be doubled, it takes almost four hits for 230+ damage to kill them. 400 damage seems to do the trick on medium and high threat, but in high threat they hit for 1200 and at level 15 you only have a base of 1050 hp :(. thankfully there isn't too many of them but they still unreasonably hurt in 3-3. then again it seems everything in general past area 3 does insane damage on medium threat even with the new health scaling :/

MasterLotus Publish time 2013-1-16 14:16:09

Edited by MasterLotus at 2013-1-16 08:18

First about me - 23 years old, have played thousands of games over different platforms, started at 3 years and sega, following by Zx Spectrum at 4 years old. High IQ, lots of time for games. Hate mmorpg (i think those games are shame), but i like RPG very much. Live in Ukraine.

Here goes my mega feedback:

1.1. "How are we doing on difficulty?".

Difficulties are good, first of all i really like that - when you can play at different ones to get stronger monsters, but i think there should be special new areas in each level for each additional difficulty grade - like easy will have all that we have right now, but normal will have additional +1 dungeon, hard will have +1 dungeon and some previosly closed door to additional area will be opened - that will add much depth to the game diffultyes. Also there should be explanation to each difficulty bonuses, like how much hp and dmg monster have in %. Stronger quality loot should be droped only from difficulty 3-4. And i d like to see some weekly Mega Difficulty like each sunday (we can call it event), so it will be like difficulty 5 for extra mini bosses and monsters / rewards.

1.2. "Are bosses way too hard and normal enemies way too easy, or vice-versa?"

Right now bosses are fine, but i must admit - first area 3 wolf bosses at once, is too much for begginer players, if you will not hide in special place in this map - you will die (there is a corner in top right close to blue field, to make them unable to go trough and you can kill 1 by 1, cus they are too large to come together).

But monster is a whole other story. Haunted Fungus at difficulty level 3 (area 2 map 2) killing 45% hero Hp in 1 hit - thats way too much, since they arent walking alone but in groups. In this game there is thing coming to my mind from LordOfTheRings - "The White mage is approaching, dont allow him to say a single word! (or we are dead)" - thats how i feal about some enemies in this game - if you will not stun them before they hit you - you are soo dead :@.

1.3. What about level caps?

Well i think level isnt changing outcome too much, right now we need to get more HP per level as well, as more HP from "bonus +HP items", since +12 hp to total (from one item) when monster deals 250 in 1 hit - is almost nothing. Anyway i think level restriction should be deleted at all, but EXP from each later area should be much more. Also everytime when you win dungeon (for every difficulty) for first time - there should be additional exp bonus.

For exchange to level cap delete, you can put item level restrictions for areas.

1.4. What about enemy balance?

Well i think its fine, there is enaught melee and ranged. But not enaught special mini-boss monsters at higher difficulties. Right now ranged shamans (which trowing green shots) are too much strong - since they can be around you and it may be hard to dodge every shot - but 3 of them is also enaught to kill you at higher difficultyes. I mean when monster dealing 40% from your HP in dmg - its looks more like a boss, but not normal creep.


2. What about karma?

First of all - there should be more karma in every Pot and Chest at higher difficulties, as well as more at stronger maps, since getting 3 shards at first area when your level is 1-3 is good and usefull, but when you reach like lvl 10 - its useless to waste additional time to collect few shards from later maps. I think each difficulty should give like +1 additional shard in each "treasury pot/chest/box" as well as +1 for each new world area.

Also would be good to get "Super Bonus" karma for clearing whole dungeon from all enemies, like extra reward for so much effort, since right now i  just going straight to the boss and i think its wrong, since exploration is much more interesting.

For me loosing karma in battle is fine - if you are not skilled enaught - then go die :@ But! Sometimes it can trow away new players, since difficulty rising pretty fast and if you will buy wrong skills (no Chi Mend and Seeing Red, for example) - you not gonna get away from difficulty 4 battles.
I mean to get Area 3, you must collect 7k karma - and thats require you to win again and again previous areas, but when they reach last difficulty - its hard even for such player as i am, who beated every hard game around (Super meat boy 100%, IWBTG, Spelunky... etc). Newcomers will find it hard to come to enemyes - hit them once - then run away to dodge incoming melee attack, as well, as dodging ranged attacks + bosses running around :lol. Reminds me BennyHill runs around.

Cant tell anything about item shops - since i just farm everything, prices are pretty expensive, so i just buying skills and new areas instead. Maybe there should not be any item shop at all, but instead - to make some "gems shop", to put them inside sockets in items, and make them to exist only in shop. Or maybe some "Skills Gems" to improve your skills (but thats will require additional lots of work to develop that), i mean to increase healing +10% or cooldown or reduce mana use... etc.

About selling items - "Sell all" would be very helpfull, but we also need some town stash to be able to save some items for future. I think this stash should be like 1-2 free slots only upon beggining and every additional slots would substract some EXP and Karma from your hero. Also there should be some Shared Stash to give items between heroes, even if it will take additional karma for stashing like that, since you will save lots of time for your second hero till he finds something similar and karma loss will make sure that players will not stash items on their other heroes, since that will be very expensive to pay for and will forse to use single hero stash and open new slots.


3. And the item generation system?

No no and again NO to items lvl 1-5 when your hero is already 15+ and playing some world areas 4+. We should get items to wear tommorow, or later this week, instead of items that we could wear with pleasure 2 days ago. I am not sure - but if there isnt "items Sets" right now - would be good to have some - with extra bonuses for full set. Also stronger difficlies should give bigger items levels.

Bigger chests should not drop white items. And we need some very rare VeryLarge chest which gonna be generated in random place of each map at difficulty 4, with a chance for very strong items + some karma and maybe little food buf to get over this boss. ;P


4.1 While we're on items. Weapons.

Right now here what we have about weapons:
- Dual wield gives atk speed - good vs bosses.
- Dueling gives crit dmg - good vs bosses.
- Two Handed gives stun chance - useless vs bosses, since they resist stun - i think thats wrong, two handed is much weaker vs bosses then others and should be somehow compensated.

4.2. Dueling.

Right now i dont see any point to pick dueling, i mean there should be much faster attack speed or crit dmg, since right now its better to pick dual wield for double wepons bonuses or 2 handed for bigger dmg, since dueling dosnt fit current - "hit once and run" system. Also dual wield should get a good chance to execute both weapons at once, since right now the best choise is 2 handed for any hero.

4.3. Armor.

Medium armor regen is fine, it helps a lot, but not feeling like overpowered mana regen. Light armor movement speed is not so usefull, but i dont know what can we put instead of movement speed... Heavy armor HP regen is too much weak - its better to pick "Chi Medi" + medium armor and spam heal, since some enemies can kill you in 2-3 hits and slow regeneration isnt good choise when you need lots of HP right now.

5. Skills... i love this part the most.

Iron Thorns deals 8 dmg to enemies who hits you. Right now this is usefull at lvl 1-2, but when you play difficulty 4 at first map area and monsters have 60 HP - this skill become useless, since you cant just stand and suffer all the dmg while thorns slowly kill them.

Ring of Frost - same situation - 8 dmg is almost nothing, it also makes screen shake and cause lags.

Skin of stone is very weird - its says it improves all "green" skills, but Iron Thorns still hits for 8 dmg, while Ring of frost gets +2 dmg and becomes 10 per monster. Also its says "Increases defence" - i tested this out - Wolf was dealing 35 dmg to me before... and after i used this skill - wolf dealing 33 dmg to me, so only 2 dmg blocked (its like +5% armor) - skill should be much improved, since it is useless.

Seeing Red is most usefull skill in game to be honest, atleast at levels 1-15. It doubles your attack dmg as well as adds +60-90% to other "Red" skills power. Other buff skills not giving soo much bonuses - but they should (i mean Skin of Stone and Dark Hunter).

Dark Hunter should not only improve instant damage, but also should improve damage over time.

Steady Shot should get more power from charged shot - since its smarter to use 2 shots fast, rather then one charged.

Chi Prayer is useless - battles are too fast, dmg from monters are too strong, there is no time for slow regeneration when its matters of seconds.

Summoning Friend - he hits too much weak, i mean 8 dmg to monster? Nearly useless, i dont get why friend 9 lvl deals 8 dmg to monsters with 2 handed weapon, while i am 5 lvl and dealing 30-50 dmg, or make us be able to open additional slots for karma to summon a little army of weak 8 dmg minnions ;P


I hope this will help. Thanks for attention. Maybe later i will add some more info, if there will be no wipe :o

karmacappa Publish time 2013-1-16 14:28:53

1) Difficulty seems ok in the first three areas for me, unless you are playing a new character in overrun areas.

2) Karma seems fine, though I'm pretty sure I want the full area unlock package available at launch.  I like deals like that, A LOT.  If you want to make a lot of sales on that from people like me, make sure it is available at launch.

3) I'm ok with the item system.  I actually buy MOST of my equipment from the vendor.  It costs more, but I need specific things.  I'll wear random greens early on, but when the buffs hit II and III, I will update my entire set to take advantage of them.

4) I almost always use medium armor.  I think the buffs for light armor and heavy armor need improvement.

5) There are a lot of abilities which don't seem to be improvements over the previous level of the ability, and/or don't scale with stats (at all).  It's hard to determine balance when certain abilities scale well, and some don't scale at all.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
View full version: Player Feedback Needed! Difficulty, Karma, Balance