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Author: Belzial

New Event EP item model - feedback [Copy link]

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2015-5-1 08:04:31 |Show all posts
Rommiz replied at 2015-5-1 06:42
I think SH should give players possibility to catch equipements in island events and in raid events  ...

HI,

Giving a +4 helm away for free...would be very bad for business...who would buy a +5 helm then? Very few.

They already give +3 Helms away for free. (silver)

Gold Equip is SR/Unique so special, giving it away for free would devalue it for everyone.
If you mean give it  away in EP ranking system in events that is what they are doing....but you still may spend gold to get the rank needed (unless u hoard hope like a superstar!)

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Rank: 4

Post time 2015-5-1 08:44:26 |Show all posts
Webby replied at 2015-5-1 08:04
HI,

Giving a +4 helm away for free...would be very bad for business...who would buy a +5 helm th ...

A +3 helm is not silver but gold equip   Ahaha I made only an example of stats! Sincerely if i had 10k gold c( but surely more to catch both) to buy event summons and island events equip I would spend only for summon e ( if i could see the best stats equipements are in Summ event) Im able to cath only 4 equip shards with this ranking in this event
As i told last post this is a good breakthrough but surely not enough in my opinion

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2015-5-1 08:45:07 |Show all posts
Think about it, if anything, having a healer weapon for testing it out is *perfect*. Imagine they make it easier to get the item next time, now you'll end up thinking "well, it's a good thing they didn't use an item I wanted!". And if it stays at 300k, then you're no worse off than you were before.

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2015-5-1 08:48:38 |Show all posts
Rommiz replied at 2015-5-1 07:42
I think SH should give players possibility to catch equipements in island events and in raid events  ...

I think a better course of action is to allow you to complete 1/3 (or 1/2!) of the item by the time you reach 75k or 85k. That's what most f2p players can do if they log in all the time and farm the last island. That way f2p doesn't have an advantage, but they don't get stuck with 5/50 pieces.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2015-5-1 08:49:01 |Show all posts
Rommiz replied at 2015-5-1 07:44
A +3 helm is not silver but gold equip   Ahaha I made only an example of stats! Sincerely i ...

yup sorry typo...+2 silver free...

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2015-5-1 09:16:35 |Show all posts
Sanz of Time replied at 2015-5-1 00:45
Think about it, if anything, having a healer weapon for testing it out is *perfect*. Imagine they ma ...

perfect for us perhaps. but not perfect for SH.

My concern is that the fact that it is healer will reduce participation, which in turn could be used by SH to suggest that the return of event equipment is not worthwhile.

Thats part of the reason for this thread - i thought the EP was acceptable if 75k is no longer feasible for SH. But because of the item, i kind of have limited interest. Originally was going to finish the 24/50 i have already, but realised that the distribution (quite clustered) of the shards mean id need 250k EP. I'd have gone there for equipment i could use, but for healer, not so much

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Rank: 4

Post time 2015-5-1 09:20:03 |Show all posts
If i play last lvl of island im able to catch 20/50 shards ( i already have this one from old event) But if want to collect augmenting materials different to wind I m able to catch only 10/50! Or i decide to bave a wind combatt deck collectIng 20/50 or all the different elements,only 10/50! I dont think this could be the definitively event sistem rewards, need more improvements! Business first of all, im agree with this but there are some diffent methods to make business ( i want to explain my motivation if SH speak Italian), and mainly to make business must solve problems

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2015-5-1 10:01:52 |Show all posts
Belzial replied at 2015-5-1 09:16
perfect for us perhaps. but not perfect for SH.

My concern is that the fact that it is healer wil ...

I do agree that it's clustered. Personally, it makes sense to have the disciple shards at the end since people who want to get more of the card will be aiming higher anyway. A good balance would be alternating disciple and equip shards.

Their though process must be, "They want item shards badly, so if it's farther down the EP, they'll spend more". At least in this case, if they change the distribution of shards, no one will be upset about missing out. If they blame the item, they'll change it to a non-healer item. If they blame how much EP it costs, they'll lower it. Either way it's a win-win.

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2015-5-2 00:09:05 |Show all posts
Edited by Feanyar at 2015-5-1 17:26

I delayed my answer to this topic quite a bit, because I've had a hard time to figure out how to put this...

I've started playing The Gate because its pay vs free structure seemed good. There was nothing that wasnt unavailible via free play - it just takes longer (with few NEVER or VIP disciples, but thats okay).

Sure, you cannot "win" and event (=8 copies of a disciple) without paying. But you can get a few, store them and wait for a revenge event or them hitting arena/mare shop. Payers get it faster, freebees get it later.
Sure, you cannon hit high arena ranks without paying. But you can still get your 2k honor and eventually afford your cards. Payers get it faster, freebees get it later.
Sure, you cannot get the event advantage items but you can get decent items via event-reward too if you dedicate your gameplay onto hunting raids, farming irkalla or tunam.

That was all fine and good. I even decided to go from freebee to small-spender and invest into devils cache to support a game I enjoy.
Then something happened: Equipments disappeared from events.

Why is this such a big deal? Because now, the previous structure changed from "free players take longer to get the good stuff! Pay for comfort/impatience" into "good equips are only for payers. Thus they will ALWAYS be superior by a large margin! Pay2Win!"
And no, R4 equips are NOT availible for free. In arena (and even worse in mareshop) you need to invest *months* of daily farm into just *one* item (every disciple needs 5 - or at least the major 3 (rings suck ;)). And you need to "see" that item 10(!) times in a shop to complete it - compared to 8 times for a disciple. And that takes long enough already.
It boils down to: Gold equip = this guy spent alot of cash - or is a vet who played during the good ol' times. Everyone else cant even hope to be close in power.
That kills it for every newer player and even frustrates the veterans who see thing going downhill. Going downhill? Yes, lets take a chronological view of what happened since equips disappeared.

First it was a series of revenge island events. Mind, back then there were 3(!) disciples going on a revenge (including raids with veery rare drops of that disciple). So I wasnt to surprised that there was no equip there. In addition, it was lunar new year and SH was busy with patch 2.45. I understood the need of revenges and my main concern back then (this thread) was the disparity between raidevents (=doable for newer players) and islands (=only for advanced players, but more cash for SH). That equips would comeback after was a given (for me).
And they did. For 2 weeks. Then something odd happened. With the introduction of augments, equips just silently disappeared. Revenge events (now a regular occurrence) only star 1 disciple. Still no equips. Events just suddenly got worse and really undesirable - unless you want to go for the disciple.

Lets look at how events were structured pre-2.45:
There was a reward for active players (the item) and a reward for paying players (the disciple). It was a good structure, that led to 3 categories of players in the event:
A) People want the disciple and aim for top50. That is a goal only reachable by paying - and they get an item for their investments too. But thats okay!
B) People that want the equipment. If they play very active they can reach it without playing. If they miss out on a bit of activity, they needed a bit of gold to get it completed. Good! Playing for rewards/progression is what a game is about after all!
C) People that dont want / can't reach the equip. They ignore the event completly.

That leads us to post-2.45 events: Basically there were only 2 categories of players participating in the event.
1) People want the disciple and aim for top50/30. That is a goal only reachable by paying. But thats okay!
2) People dont want / cant afford to go for top50/30: They farm a bit for augment mats and dont care about the event aspect (= EP rewards and rank) at all.

Now, finally, equips are back!
Sadly the EP reward structure is all upside-down!
You get disciple-shards early on. Something you only need if you complete the disciple (=top30). Means: if you reach high EP tiers.
You get item shards very late! Something you would want even if you cant (afford) to reach top30 and thus removing category B event participators (pre-2.45) completly from the event and forcing them category 2 (post 2.45): farming augments, ignoring EP/ranks.
Even worse! Considering that 75k EP, maybe 100k EP (if hyperactive and farming irkalla) is the theoretical maximum you can reach without buying hope, you will only get <50% of the shards needed for an item! That means, you cannot even complete the item if you wait for it to show up a second time in a later equip. Rendering the equipment shards utterly useless! (not to mention how many months it might take for the item to even show up a second time...)

The "perfect" post-2.45 solution would be: Switch the disciple shards and equip shards in the event structure!
Why? Nobody need 28(!) disciple shards in the <100k EP region since you wont have a completed disciple anyways (and thus no reason to augment it). And nobody needs 20 item-shards in the <100k EP region, since thats not even half an item!
If you make the equip availible in the <100k (or 75k as pre-2.45) EP region, you would have such an event participant structure:
a) People want the disciple and aim for top50. That is a goal only reachable by paying - and they get an item for their investments too. But thats okay!
b) People that want the equipment. If they play very active they can reach it without playing. If they miss out on a bit of activity, they needed a bit of gold to get it completed. Good! Playing for rewards/progression is what a game is about after all!
c) People dont want / cant afford to go for top50/30 and the equip: They farm a bit for augment mats and dont care about the event aspect (= EP rewards and rank) at all.

This way every player gets something from events - the more active you are (or, at some point: willing to spend money), the more you get. That motivates people to play! That keeps the game alive! Or vice-versa: The lack of equips, the heavy pay2win-screw-you-freebee/lowspenders it led into drives away players!

And thats where the problem arises:
With the playerbase dropping, SH thinks "we need more ways to charge money to stay alive!".
Thus they added items into high EP regions - only accessible for payers. Probably the line of thought was: "Okay, those going for rank, might be willing to spend a tad more to finish the item even it top30 is already secured. And if few people just go for the item, they take away ranks from those hunting the disciple, thus forcing the rank-hunters to go higher in EP!".
But that just means, the entire middle-section (active freebees and low-spenders) are forced into a "sorry, nothing to gain here for you!" scenario. Frustrating them and ultimatly they leave. With the playerbase dropping further, SH needs to find new ways to get more cash out of whoever's left. And the cycle repeats until only whales and inactive casuals are left ingame.
And the whales, seeing that many of their old social-peers left and get bored by the "cash-war" and decide to quit too. Thats when the game is officially dead.
A sad, and bleak future. One I dont want to see!

TL;DR:
The access to equipment for everybody is a vital aspect of the game and its success! Yes, you should still have to play for it. It should take some effort to complete items and it's okay to sell some items too (adv. equip) - but good equips need to be availible by playing. And that means, the upper-limit for completing an equip is 75k or 100k max.
Otherwise the equip will only be an extra, "free" goodie for the heavy spenders widening the gap between whales and free/low-spenders even further. And that results in losing even more active players. And I bet neither SH nor we, the players, want that to happen!
Because, after all, a dead game doesnt generate any profit for SH and generates no fun for players.


EDIT:
@Tokay: Please dont misunderstand this as "a rant" or "badmouthing SH or TheGate". This post (and the other game-design related posts from me) are meant as a desperate outcry to save the gate before its to late!

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Post time 2015-5-2 01:58:53 |Show all posts
Edited by stunner400 at 2015-5-2 02:01
Feanyar replied at 2015-5-2 00:09
I delayed my answer to this topic quite a bit, because I've had a hard time to figure out how to put ...

This  post was so true, I cried for a moment (8sec) I really  do hope SH read this and understand  things from our point view and find a way to fix their's.

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