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Author: Cassielle

Player Feedback Needed! Difficulty, Karma, Balance   [Copy link]

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

Post time 2013-1-16 14:31:36 |Show all posts
also i believe cunning should increase skill damage and not crit chance, crit chance is useless without damage and since skills CAN'T crit its useless for an archetype that mostly focuses on skills and kiting. maybe if skills could crit, crit chance would be useful but as it stands now, cunning is practically useless as a stat and needs to do something else.

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Rank: 2

Post time 2013-1-16 15:28:28 |Show all posts
Just few additions:

- Wanted Monsters should give much more shards/exp - i killed Wanted monster in "Rotten Core d4" and got 18 EXP and 6 Shards... thats pretty nothing - it should be like 500-800 EXP and 50-100 shards, since those monsters arent here everytime and you get like 5k EXP and 500 shards for only winning mission which takes like 3 minutes if you know where to go.

- I think the best way to balance monster damage is just rise hero hitpoints x2, right now overrun diffuclty monsters and bosses in world area 2, 3 are killing you in 2 blows.

- There is no currently differents between heroes - prowess, cunning and fortitude heroes have the same HP and Def - monsters kill you with the same speed.

- When you hit AoE spells from afar trough walls (Meteor Rain), monsters which got some dmg from it - fill fly trough the texture walls / over black holes and land right in front of you to kick.

- There should be some comands for a summoned friend - Attack, Defend, Hold position, Follow. Also you should be able to unsummon you current friend in town to change him for another.

- When you quit from game - it should remember your in game prefences (like auto attack and show items on floor), since right now you must change it directly (to turn on) each time you login.

- Map opasity option when you hit "M" will be helpfull - to make it more/less solid, when 0% will be completly transparent and 100% will be completly "solid" if you got what i mean (you will be unable to see anything under map picture).

- "Enter" should open ingame chat and prepare you to write message, while hitting second time - will send message and minimize window.

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Post time 2013-1-16 19:06:03 |Show all posts
Wolf's OP neft pls.

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Rank: 3Rank: 3

Post time 2013-1-16 19:41:43 |Show all posts
Hi. This is my first post on the forums, and will possibly be my only post, unfortunately. I don't really like forums
Difficulty:
     Assuming we're really only meant to test the first 3 areas, the difficulty is fairly balanced, with an exception to the third area - once the threat starts rising, the more reliant on a game-breaking skill set combo and class you become. The big problem is with the ranged mobs; they hit way too hard, often one-shotting under leveled alts coming in on an uncleared run for the experience. This causes high threat levels to have a completely unforgiving atmosphere. I get how this could be desirable, but when your main comes back and is still getting 2-3 shot as well, it's more than just unforgiving - it's broken and nearly unplayable.
     With the recent nerf to the health curve, this has become extremely problematic, because it's not always possible to dodge the projectiles when there's often more than 6 coming at you, on top of having to deal with close range mobs. Not to mention they seem to have had a buff as well, increasing their HP and damage, but that's near impossible to tell since I don't have any hard data to compare it to from the last patch (I should really start a spreadsheet - google docs maybe?).

Karma:
     The nerf to transmuting was nice - it now requires you to think about what you're getting rid of to maximize your karma during farming runs, as opposed to just right clicking in your inventory at random (yes I did this because lolgolden). On the topic of golden, it was completely broken last patch. And while I like it being nerfed down, I hope it isn't nerfed to the point of no longer mattering (as of right now I'm assuming it's off because I'm getting nada). Removing the random enchantment aspect from golden, such as increasing health and armor etc while keeping the golden enchantment on it would help give it a better approach; you trade off survivability (and let's face it, there's next to none right now) for a noticeable increase in the amount of karma you get. Rewards for high risk. If it's possible, it may be a good idea to nerf the amount it gives you on lower threat levels while maintaining the amount given on overrun threat levels, to keep in-line with the rewards for greater risk thing.

Loot RNG:
     The decrease in the amount of loot dropped on top of the reduced effect from golden items (not to mention the reduced drop rate of golden items to begin with) makes farming karma more time consuming, and requires a bit more planning for how you want to farm it. "Do I want to full clear for every last shard, or do I just want to hit major outlets?"
     Personally, I like the change. More common blues and purples will be nice for leveling up along the lower tiers, and once the shared cache is put in, the drop rate may need to be lowered depending on how often they show up. Personally, I haven't seen any on this new patch. I didn't see any blues in the shop until I hit 20 on the old patch, and didn't see my first drop until 23, hours before the newest patch. The levels of dropped loot should really be kept in line with the area you're farming. You don't want to see a level 1 club drop from the chief in 4-3, and at the same time you don't want level 16 hats dropping from Spineripper.

Item Balance:
     Unarmed is very nice. Broken attack speed ;D. But in all seriousness, the overall scaling of the weapons isn't very well done; When you start getting to level 20+ and the weapons are just starting to break 100 base damage, your overall dps isn't going to increase by a ton unless you're going mono red and stacking buffs like the spirit helper and food. The only time you could get away with not using the Dog Spirit really was when you dumped into power. If you went skill or defense, you were locked into using it in order to maintain enough damage to kill things before they killed you, and then the weapons didn't scale well enough to be a reliable source of damage, causing you to be heavily skill oriented - and when most skills are broken in a bad way, well, let's just say you enjoy prowess a lot more.
     The current regen from med armour is insane; you can spam basically ANY skill once you hit med armor 3 or higher. At the same time, giving this skill as a starting baseline for Prowess classes is causing them to be BROKEN. Being able to regen tons of energy while not sacrificing damage from going solely into Power causes the class to be extremely unbalanced. The light armor movement speed buff can be nice, but the movement speed isn't useful in a practical environment when you're required to spam stunning skills and heals just to survive. Meanwhile, I have yet to test the full effects of a high level heavy armor buff. In theory, the health regen could become a life saver with the lowered HP curve, but that's only if it can out-regen multiple mobs hitting you at once, which itself causes the issue of botting and AFK farming.
     Swapping prowess classes to use light armor with the move speed buff, and cunning to use med armor with the regen buff could solve many things. If you rebalanced the system to give more focus on the physical aspect of the classes, it could become more balanced. For example, if you're duel wielding, you don't want to be encumbered by heavy weight while parrying with one weapon and countering with the other. You have to be lithe and flexible. As such, you want to be light and able to dance through your enemies, dealing death while avoiding hits. Dueling, you want to be able to have enough mobility to make the hits you need to make, while having enough defense to be able to take a hit. Using a huge, slow two-hander, you don't have enough speed or mobility to be able to block, so you want to have armor just deflect blows for you while you deliver death until the unjust.
     With all the aforementioned in mind, if you added penalties to using weapon and armor combos that were unreasonable, it could prevent abuse of the system and maintain a closer balance instead of the clear winning of energy regen we have now. For some rough examples: You lose some attack speed while wearing med and heavy armor while duel wielding, you lose focus (read: energy regen) due to being too light or two heavy while dueling, or you regen (rework to health boost instead possibly?)/vitality/defensive capabilities due to not being armored enough while wearing light or med armor while using a 2her. These are just my 2 cents and while likely be disagreed with by the dev team - after all, it's their vision on how balance should work and everybody has their own idea. Not to mention it'd probably be a huge hassle to recode that crap a week before launch

Skills:
     Most of the CC is overpowered, while many of the non-prowess skills are underpowered due to how reliant the other classes are on them. I haven't tested all the abilities yet, but some of the major ones that jump out at me right now are:
  • Ninja Escape - The stun is way longer than necessary, considering it can be used without cool down as long as you have the energy. With no real limit on the distance you can travel with it, the stun becomes unnecessary.
  • Steady Shot - The energy cost on this is way too high considering how reliant cunning classes are on this at the start of the game due to extremely low power stats. I know it's meant to be a kite class, but if you pull a pack of 12 and can only kill 1 or 2 every thirty seconds, it becomes more of a guerrilla tactic class. Hit, run until the mobs leash, rinse, repeat. 5 minutes later, one pack down! Too bad you can't leash the boss due to a big blue wall in your way.
  • Rain of Blows - I consider the damage and the stun on this balanced. Considering it's able to hit multiple enemies, the damage can stack a bit high when using 2hers. If you added a stipulation that it can only be used with a certain speed weapon or higher (say, normal), it may balance it out a bit while keeping damage reasonable.
  • Seeing Red - Completely broken. Can make things hit way harder than they need to. Makes using RoB at level 10 do the same damage per hit as a normal unarmed attack without Seeing Red. I have no idea how to fix it while keeping it viable though. Maybe remove the attack damage bonus to normal hits? :\
  • Meteor Rain - From before the patch, this was spam-able and scaled fairly well when combo'd with Seeing Red. Made it do too much damage when spammed to the point that things died before they even got near you. That's not exactly the intent of that spell, is it :\ Make it less spam-able (say, wait for the first one to end) and it could become more balanced. Haven't used it extensively.
As for the rest, I haven't tested them enough to make any calls on them.


This is really just my personal opinion and I know a lot of people are going to disagree. A lot of this also isn't feasible with a week left until launch. A lot of my ideas also remove the "open ended-ness" that was one of the key features of character design, but my thoughts are that you can't have proper balance while maintaining open class construction, otherwise there will always "best" and "dominant" route to take. While not keeping it open, it also doesn't restrict game play so much as to leave it feeling like a coffin.

Thanks for reading this MASSIVE wall of text, if you've made it this far down. Input is more than welcome, and I'll try to respond to any with personal thoughts and logical rationale.

-Gler AKA abc, 123, and Did you break your hip?



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Rank: 3Rank: 3

Post time 2013-1-16 19:58:47 |Show all posts
I'm going to go ahead and double post for this, since my post is too long once this paragraph has been included (10547 characters trolololo)

Karma Post Addendum:
     I think there should be an increase on the amount of karma and XP you get from some of the boss monsters available in higher threat missions. As it stands, the dying to them can more often then not cost more than you gain from killing them in the first place. Along the lines of changing karma values, chests should be changed to either grant an item or a larger than average amount of karma, instead of both. By doing both the karma gain is increased dramatically when you have 4 chests lined up that give karma and multiple greens that sell for 150 per. Considering how there's a planned addition to gain daily amounts of karma, I don't see how spicy horse will make any money off of this. It gives karma away a bit too easily.
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Rank: 1

Post time 2013-1-17 00:52:40 |Show all posts
Just my very quick 5 cent on balance...

So far I had no real problems but suddenly.. in 3-3 the new shooting skeletons (I don't know the name) could kill me in 2 hits. As there are sometimes 2 of them.. I die instantly.
But the boss in 3-3 needs like 4-5 hits to kill me.

As the boss is close range and there is only one, he is way easier than the shooting skeletons.

The new heavy tree monster in 3-3 are also difficult for me, they kill me in 2-3 hits, but as they are close range I guess its "ok". It makes the game difficult at this point, but not unfair.

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Rank: 2

Post time 2013-1-17 03:22:35 |Show all posts
Thats the main point, since we will have 3 worlds with 8 areas and each area consists from 3 dungeons, but right now winning area 3 of first world is already hard cus of 2-hits death, just i dont get it, what will be in later dungeons - 1 hit kills probably, lol.

I remember something similar in DevilMayCry4 - like Nightmare difficulty - your hits kill any enemy, including bosses, in one hit, but any enemy can kill you in one hit as well xD, well i am not that crazy, so not even tryed this difficulty

By the way, Akaneiro reminds me ChaosLegion style, not sure why. Would be really good to make bosses to have "Hp Layers" - when you break first layer - boss become stronger and receives new attacks / changes his movement, that was making each boss battle in ChaosLegion like really interesting, since in Akaneiro "boss battles" are kinda dumb,- bosses dosnt feel like Real Boss, but like a piece of meat without any brains - just stands in one place and spam autoattack.

Thats what i hate in almost every game - dumb monsters AI. I mean, for example, in TitanQuest some monsters trying to dodge player's ranged shots by moving around, or heal their allies, or even attacking you in places where you gonna be in 1 second later (not sure how to spell it in english) - they just can predict where you are gona be - so they shot in this place then you move and catch the hit xD that makes player dance like a crazy to actually dodge ranged shots, like zig-zag or so. Thats what we need right here - some more Action.

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Post time 2013-1-17 10:42:24 |Show all posts

RE: Player Feedback Needed! Difficulty, Karma, Balance

Edited by B10H4Z4RD at 2013-1-17 16:49

only gonna write about difficulty
Way too easy, still a walk in the park, or so I've seen so far. The game currently has a near nonexistent learning curve. Once you master the general strategy, you can basically rush to the end of the game (keep in mind that increasing this curve doesn't simply mean increasing hp/damage on mobs) Cunning should rely on speed, ie the aggro for monsters should be adjusted slightly and they get skills for not pulling aggro. Fort is pretty much fine, sustain autoattacks, turn on skills...

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Post time 2013-1-17 15:06:02 |Show all posts
What's the point of the boss in this game? They drop shit item, their attack even less damage than the normal monster!!! WTF

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Rank: 3Rank: 3

Post time 2013-1-17 15:17:49 |Show all posts
RyanLennix replied at 2013-1-17 00:06
What's the point of the boss in this game? They drop shit item, their attack even less damage than t ...

Which boss? All the bosses I think of hit harder than any other monster barring throwers, but those are broken anyways.

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